Women’s Ordination: The Greatest Danger

On May 7, 2012 by Chad Stuart

I want to share with you the greatest danger regarding the issue of ordaining women that is swirling around the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

  • Women's Ordination: The Greatest Danger
The greatest danger is not…

By ordaining women we will be opening the door to LGBT clergy. Yes, this is really an argument that is out there I have seen it with my own two eyes. I would say the vast majority of Seventh-day Adventists, even those that believe in ordaining women still hold to the truth that marriage is between a man & a woman. So this is not the greatest danger.

By ordaining women in North America we will alienate the world church, thus causing a great schism. The same countries that are against the ordination of women pastors are also against the ordination of women deacons and women elders. But to the credit of the world church they respect sticking with the denomination even when they don’t agree with all “her” rules, much better than some of us in my part of the world. So if we haven’t alienated them already, I highly doubt this issue will, no matter what the hyperbole is to the contrary. So this is not the greatest danger.

By ordaining women in North America we are embracing the feminist movement. NO! Why does a desire to have God’s calling recognized by the body of Christ have to signal an embrace of feminism? That is a sexist position. This is not the greatest danger of women’s ordination.

By ordaining women we are somehow promoting women to leave home and not be mothers as God called them to be. 75% of women participate in the labor force in the United States, making a choice to ordain women will not suddenly cause those other 25% to jump into ministry and abandon their families. Women work and women will become pastors with or without ordination. I’ve never heard one girl I know say, “well I was thinking of going into ministry, but since they don’t ordain me I’m going to stay home and have kids.” This is not the greatest danger of ordaining women.

By ordaining women we are opening the doors to the agenda of the liberal wing of the church. I’m 100% for women’s ordination and I would not consider myself a liberal (though maybe just by making that statement some of you are saying “yes you are” Trust me the liberals I know don’t agree with you:)) I want our church to be more conservative: To return to focusing on public proclamation of our foundational truths. To return to having it be a reality that the majority of SDA’s are vegetarians:) and believers in the prophetic ministry of Ellen G. White. I could go on, but the point is, I still think women should be ordained because it has nothing to do with liberal or conservative. It has to do with affirming those that God calls on an equal setting. This is not the greatest danger.

By NOT ordaining women we will completely turn off an entire generation! WRONG! My generation is already turned off and it has very little to do with the fact that we haven’t ordained women. Yes, many of us are bothered by this, but I don’t think this will cause a mass exodus from our church. Not anymore mass than has already occured. This is not the greatest danger of NOT ordaining women.

By NOT ordaining women we will miss out on some of the giftings that God has given to the church. REALLY? Doesn’t this limit God a little? Ellen White is the perfect example of if God wants to use a woman’s gifts, He’ll use a woman’s gifts! This is not the greatest danger of NOT ordaining women.

By NOT ordaining women we will not see revival. With great deference to my mentor, this is also a position I am not willing to take, because again it limits God to having His divine will being modified by the action of a committee. This is not the greatest danger of NOT ordaining women.

The GREATEST DANGER in regards to the ordination of women is that Satan will keep us talking about it to each other and in the meantime we won’t be talking about what we need to be talking about to those whom we need to be talking to: Telling a lost world about JESUS!

 

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  • Mari-Carmen

    I agree with you, Chad. This ongoing discussion/argument is just another way we get distracted from the true issue of our day: Jesus is coming soon and He wants as many of us to tell it to others as possible. In the light of eternity, what does it matter that we ordained (or not) women. As a woman who studied theology in the mid-80′s I was, already back then, asked repeatedly if it bothered me that "you would never be a full pastor". My reply back then was that I didn’t need to be ordained by men to do God’s work. I needed His calling, ordination, and empowering, and noone else’s. Twenty five years later we are still using the precious time God gives us in a less than wise manner.

  • Ben Moor

    Chad, some excellent thoughts. I can attest to the fact that to ordain, or not to ordain, does cause a conflict in the church, and a distraction to the spreading of the gospel. The women’s ordination issue, either pro or con, will always divide the church, depending on where it is, and it will most certainly retard evangelism in the moment of the argument. However, Ellen White implies that in order to extend evangelism, everyone, including women, should be involved in the work and even seems to indicate that by setting these women apart by the laying on of hand will help to advance the work. I believe she was speaking of the ideal. But we do not live in the ideal, which does not mean we have an excuse not to work toward the ideal. My concern is really with those who hold to the extremes on both ends of the issue. These people/groups agitate the issue from either end with a vehemency that actually defeats the possibility of coming to a common understanding and solution. Therefore, the world church needs to come to a resolution on this issue with a clear biblical and SoP hermeneutic that is consistent and unified with the Bible and Historic Protestant and Adventist practice!

  • Shawn Brace

    I agree, Chad! The more we can be distracted by this secondary issue, the more a lost world is neglected. Granted, I am an ordained male and so I don’t have this battle to fight, per se, but we still need to be able to major in majors rather than minors. The great gospel commission we have been given – and the three angels’ messages as well – says simply to go. It doesn’t tell us to spend time on these side issues. Glad a brother who is "pro" women’s ordination can see this (I remain blissfully agnostic on the question).

  • http://www.jenniferjill.org Jennifer

    This is the best article I’ve ever read on WO! Seriously, I’m restraining myself from using ALL CAPS. I agree with every single word. I would hasten to add that if we took all the energy expended on obsessing over WO, and invested it in a woman’s issue we can ALL agree on–fighting sex trafficking, domestic violence, etc.–we’d honor God and defeat Satan’s strategy sidetrack us. Thank you, Chad, whoever you are.

  • Steve M

    Ever since the men of the church sent Ellen White to the farthest backwoods in the world, Australia, because they saw a woman getting too powerful, the controlling men of the church have maintained their fear of women, and fear that they will lose their power over the church to the power of women,and will have to share the power with women, and they will have all the rights and privileges of the men. This is not based on any New Testament issue although it is blamed on Paul. It is based on fear of losing power, authority, and based on the cultural attitude that men and women are not to be equals. Yes, Satan has put this fear in our Adventist men, and they are willingly acting on it. This is to deprive the Remnant Church from an army of workers who can help bring the message of God’s Kingdom to the world, and prepare a people for Christ’s return. We do not need a 5 year study for what is true today. For what was proclaimed in 1977 as true. Our astute young people, astute members see the hypocracy in all this and assume there is hypocracy in other areas of church management, feel betrayed, and check out and go where they believe church leaders are more honest, or just check out feeling the whole religious thing is a bunch of hypocracy and want nothing to do with it.

  • Ken Brummel

    Many times I have heard the argument that the priesthood was always an all male group. Revelation was written to the 7 churches representing the church throughout history. Revelation 1:5-6 talks of Jesus washing us in His blood and making us priests and kings. So unless women cannot be members of the church, this argument is as void as the sins Jesus washed us from.

  • Trevan Osborn

    I can agree with many of your statements but disagree with your concluding point. The issue of women’s ordination is a not a secondary matter that distracts us from our primary mission of telling people about Jesus. In fact, I would suggest that by not ordaining women, we are actively hurting our evangelism in a few ways. First, while the first question on people’s lips isn’t going to be our position on women’s ordination, I think the vast majority of the people we are trying to reach in North America would be disturbed, if not appalled, at the church’s position on it. This certainly will hinder our efforts. Secondly, we cannot deny that the church’s position does hinder women from getting into pastoral ministry. It is a clear statement to all women, that they are not valued as men are in the church. While there are many female pastors who have fought through and stuck it out, my mom included, let’s not pretend like it hasn’t kept women from going into full-time ministry. The churches evangelistic efforts are being hurt by this issue. Finally, what are we telling people about Jesus? Right now, we are telling them that Jesus discriminates against women simply for being a woman. They are not as valued as men, they are not allowed to serve God in every possible capacity. We are NOT all one in Christ Jesus as Paul says we are. We are giving people a wrong picture of the value Jesus places on all of us and hurts our efforts. So, this isn’t a secondary issue to evangelism but is actually very central to our evangelistic efforts.

  • Chad Stuart

    Steve M–I would say that the conversation leaves civil when we accuse all men that are against women’s ordination as being just power hungry, or when we state that astute people agree with WO and see the hypocrisy in the issue. I know many humble, not power hungry men that are against WO and I know many very astute people that are against WO. Just as I do not appreciate absolute statements in regards to me being a leftist ready to throw-out all the Bible b/c I believe in and support WO, I think it best I respectfully not label all those who oppose WO with like mannered diatribes.

  • Chad Stuart

    Trevan–I would at least disagree with your first point considering one of the fastest growing churches (Mars Hill) in North America in our most secular city (Seattle) is staunchly against ordaining women as pastors or elders. On the second point I cannot say since I have not known any personally who have not chosen ministry b/c of this issue, so you may be correct.On the third I don’t think we are communicating that Jesus discriminates against women, in fact I don’t think most people are asking that question outside our church walls. We’ve baptized over 90 people in our church in the last 3+ years and not one has asked me about our view on this. I think we ask different questions inside the church than are being asked outside. All of this said, I still believe the morally correct thing to do is to ordain women. So even if it has no influence on evangelism we should still do it b/c it is the right thing to do.

  • http://twitter.com/iankitney iankitney

    The idea that I am getting is that there is a lot of talk about North America, but I think that we need to remember that this is a HUGE issue outside of North America. (Yes, I accept that you live and experience this in NA) I personally know a couple of woman that have wanted to pastor and wanted to study Theology, but because of the ordination issue, have not done so. There are also a couple of woman that have taken the step in studying and some have even been given jobs. Here in South Africa it is a very sensitive issue that is also very much mixed with cultural undertones never mind theological. I pray that this issue like is stated in the article will not distract us from what we really ought to be doing. Sadly in many parts of the developing world it is becoming an issue that can cripple… Holy Spirit please lead and guide so that we can spread this Good news…

  • Jennifer

    I so agree that it’s not right or even rational to malign the motives of those opposed to WO. The other point I liked was that excluding women from pastoral ministry doesn’t frustrate God’s purpose to use them. Mary Magdalene was thoroughly marginalized and she found a "way around the system" and was used more as an outsider than any insider. Having said that, I believe, based on years of experience, that male chauvinism is alive and well in the church, and that much of the opposition to WO is based on bias. Here’s a line of questioning I use with people who oppose female leadership: "If an elder candidate met every criterion in 1 TIm. 3, but was female, would you recommend her for eldership?" The answer would be no. Then I’d ask, "If a candidate met none of the criteria but was male, would you recommend them?" The answer would most likely be no. Then I’d ask, "What if they were your only two choices?" (which does happen!) If they were honest, many of them would say they’d take the man. Which reveals to me it’s not just a biblical issue (or they’d be concerned about the other criteria!) but one of prejudice and fear of change. Or fear of being considered "liberal."

  • Trevan Osborn

    Chad, I’m glad that Mars Hill has found some success, as have you, in reaching people. However, every indicator tells us that the Christian church in North America is losing a lot of ground. More people are defining themselves as having no religion and virtually no denomination is growing. While there are some stories of success, the larger story is one of decline. Even those "success stories", a church of several thousand in a city of millions, are hardly a drop in the bucket. I would never suggest that if we ordain women, this will magically solve all the problems. However, in a society as skeptical towards religion as ours is, every little thing counts. I think many people are very interested in the value we place on people and the issue of equality. Sure, many people will still join our churches if we don’t ordain women but I think you aren’t hearing people raise those issues because they won’t even give us a chance at this point.

  • Shawn Brace

    Trevan,What about those who won’t join our church if we do ordain women?

  • Trevan Osborn

    Shawn, I view this issue as central to a healthy faith. How we view people, and treat them, is just as important as mentally accepting that Jesus died for my sins. Not ordaining women is inherently prejudiced, dishonoring, and not the loving thing to do (which 1 John 4 is clear is central to faith). So, if someone won’t join the church because we ordain women, I would suggest they have not embraced the the implications of the faith we as a church profess. So, I’ll take that loss.

  • richard brace

    Wonderful article and excellent comments. Unfortunately the church has failed to grasp, understand and accept Matthew 23: verses 23 &24. As a result its mission has been lukewarm at best. Do not get caught up in the liberal/conservative, traditional/contemporary and any other issue that bogs one down. Success of evangelism will continue to fail due to the above non acceptance. The message given to Adventists is simple but we are choking ourselves to death. Excuses, excuses, excuses. As a result I personally cannot subject myself each Sabbath in worship where the same things are occurring 60 years later. It is time for the Church to lift itself up/separate from these issues and focus on its mission—evangelism. Preach the gospel—the love of God. Unfortunately leadership is lacking and has been for the most part since the death of Sister White. Awaken Adventists. You are becoming mired in choking on gnats. Richard

  • John

    I’m puzzled by the idea that there is any connection between ordination of women and ordaining LGBT clergy. They are two unrelated issues – apart from the fact that they involve significant changes to current practise.It also needs to be understood that same-sex marriage and having LGTB people working in ministry in the church are not the same issue. To have an LGTB person in the church does not automatically mean they support same-sex marriage – many don’t. We must not exclude LGTB people from involvement in ministry for fear of the same sex marriage issue.

  • Tammy

    God created a woman to be a man’s helper. Not his authority. Although the world is turned upside down on this issue the church shouldn’t be.

  • Ernestt

    I am saddened to see how this issue has come again to the forefront after two lop sided votes on the General Conference seesion. When the issue first came up and voted on, the reaction by the supporters as reported in the Review and Herald was great anger and I wondered if this was the response, is this issue a leading of Christ? To those that say there is NO correlation between women’s ordination and same sex marriages, as denominations such as the Episcopalian, Prsbyterian, and Methodist adopted women ordination, in the SF Bay Area, isolated instances of Women clergy were involved with performing same sex (lesbian) weddings and were disciplined by the leadership respectively. If women ordination is approved in conferences and union in the North American Dvision, what evidence can this decision will not lead to same sex marriages? I had thought it wouldn’t until Prop 8 came in California defining marriage. It was truly incredible how many prominent Adventist leaders of important Adventist institutions such as colleges, universities, hospitals were opposed to Prop 8. Even Pacific Union College had a forum debating this issue. I was absolutely amazed! I thought Adventist had a clear idea on this topic. Why were the Roman Catholics and the Mormons the only major supporters of Prop 8 and Adventis were silent publicly? We have had the Protestant examples, when will Adventists follow their example as a result of women ordination? You can just google women ordination same sex marriages and follow the links on this issue.

  • John

    The reason there appears to be a connection between ordination of women and same sex marriage is simply because there are many people who support both. They have more inclusive views on ordination of women and are more likely to have more inclusive views on other issues. There are also a vast number of people who support women’s ordination who hold conservative views on same-sex marriage. One does not automatically follow the other.